[00:00:57] John: Good morning Mateo, how are you?

[00:00:59] Mateo: John, I’m fantastic, brother. How are you?

[00:01:02] John: I’m great, man. It’s nice to see your face. It’s been a little bit.

[00:01:05] Mateo: I’m fresh back from Oregon. I had a great trip out there. So our boy Nick Mote, got to hang out with him for a little bit and yeah, catch you up later. But good to be back. I can see your face.

[00:01:16] John: Spent some time with the moms? Did that kind of thing?

[00:01:20] Mateo: Yes.

[00:01:21] John: Yes. Nice. Nice.

[00:01:23] Mateo: Got to go to Central Oregon too and check on my my stepdad and see some art. So it was a good trip.

[00:01:29] John: oh, nice. Sweet. Yeah, I definitely want to get caught up on that. Episode 121, the No BS podcast. We have a great guest. We’re sticking with the Canada theme.

[00:01:40] Mateo: Dude we’re up North quite a bit

[00:01:42] John: yeah. The great white north. We’re excited because just in three weeks, we’re going to be up and Banff for the CanStay Short-term Rental conference.

[00:01:50] John: So we’re trying to stick with this theme. We’re trying to go ahead and bring attention to the regulatory and just all the, I wouldn’t say issues. Yes, there’s a lot of issues, but just Just bring attention to what’s going on and the differences and the amazing similarities and how we can better help the industry north of the border

[00:02:09] Mateo: we’re doing what we do, man. We’re going up, we’re going up top. We’re building some partnerships. We’re, adding their voice to the mix and, Hey, look, they’re our neighbors to the North, right? Why shouldn’t we, and why shouldn’t we do what we do and, bring them into the mix?

[00:02:26] Mateo: Like it’s, I don’t know, to me, I see the borders, but I don’t. And I know there’s so many differences in the markets and everything else, but there are in the U S markets. So it’s like an extension team, right? Like it’s the fits, right? It doesn’t have to work too hard to fit. It’s different in the way that it’s should be different.

[00:02:43] Mateo: And that’s not a bad thing, but we’re still stronger together. And I think, the more we can come together around standards, conversations, ideation, idea sharing. We’ll get into this. We’re not here to talk about what I think today. We’re getting into our

[00:02:59] John: Alright, I love hearing what you think, but without further ado, let’s go ahead and introduce Mr. John Papa. I tried to go ahead and say his full last name. He said, no, just say Papa. Just say Papa. I murdered it. So John Papa with Papa’s Getaways. Thanks so much for joining us today.

[00:03:14] John Papa: Hey guys, and thanks for having me, Mateo, John and thanks for, as you guys just said in that opener, shining a light on Canada. We are here, we exist, and in many ways that you guys do good things, we can as well. I can, Justin Bieber’s Canadian, Drake is Canadian, we can go that way, and But let’s do short term rentals.

[00:03:35] John Papa: Yeah, that’s true.

[00:03:36] Mateo: the weekend is Canadian to the weekends,

[00:03:39] John Papa: Jamal Murray. Yeah.

[00:03:41] Mateo: some good

[00:03:41] John: Widespread panic,

[00:03:43] John Papa: yeah.

[00:03:43] Mateo: I love Canada, man. And

[00:03:45] John Papa: yeah. and

[00:03:46] Mateo: tell the people out there, man, stop hating on. Yeah. Love

[00:03:49] John Papa: But you get my point being that, we are capable of just as much our political landscape sometimes gets in the way. Not for those types of talents, but maybe for our type of talents.

[00:03:59] John Papa: But thanks for just shedding light on our. Because if there’s one thing I believe, I’m looking at my screen background that I took with my own iPhone and it’s a national park by where we are in Magog. And, we are cottage country, like we belong in this industry.

[00:04:15] John Papa: It’s beautiful. It’s God given and it’s, we shouldn’t be getting in our own way. So

[00:04:21] John: In the past month and a half, since we, came on board and partnered with CanStays and jumped in as far as NoBS and Direct is coming up and sponsoring as well, and we’re really excited and just working with Catherine, who’s just amazing to, to spearhead this, it’s been a learning experience and I still have no idea what the hell I’m doing or reading and I’m trying to go ahead and look at, different, providences and how they all work together and how the, you have an election in 2025, but an election can be called at any time.

[00:04:52] John: What the fuck? It’s confusing. And it’s but it’s super interesting. Like it’s, and, but from my understanding the most interesting thing is that change can happen quickly. If the right things are happening and the right, people are talking about the right thing. So let’s let’s not go there right now.

[00:05:10] John: Let’s hit the rewind button and let’s chat about, let’s chat about you coming into the short term mental space. What was that trajectory like for you?

[00:05:21] John Papa: sure. I guess about three years ago now I was in my nine to five, shocker, I think that’s how most stories start off. And I got a bit addicted to the BiggerPockets podcast. So all types of real estate investing. And I just was soaking like a sponge because I knew that was. My way out.

[00:05:39] John Papa: I always knew I want to be in to real estate at some capacity But I didn’t really know how I want to go about it. So I started just learning as many strategies as possible and I would try to speak duplex triplex types of strategies to my then fiance now wife and she’s an interior designer and, taking on these, call it average looking properties and just making a little margin off them, blank stare, just nothing, but then when I just listened probably to a short term mental episode and how we can stand out on design and there’s higher cash flow, which is something we’re looking forward to.

[00:06:18] John Papa: And I mentioned to her, you’re like, you can make a place really cute, go all out on, your concepts and we can be good players, like you make it pretty and I’ll sell it. And then the eyes were shining and, but there was a, that was by one year later after I’ve soaked in all that information.

[00:06:34] John Papa: So we got started two years ago in Magog, Quebec. So I think you mentioned you’re from Vermont right at the border. It’s an hour and a half from Montreal, it’s four seasons, there’s Orford National Park, we’ve got a big lake during the summer we aim for 100 percent occupancy during the summer that kids are out of school, and we try to book our ski weekends.

[00:06:54] John Papa: In the in the winter. So that’s the game we’re playing there.

[00:06:57] John: Dive into this a little bit with working with the significant other, right? How that, that’s not always the easiest thing we hear, sometimes it works great and sometimes they’re like I separate family from work.

[00:07:09] John: How’s that been for you?

[00:07:11] John Papa: Definitely this has become my life, right? So there’s definitely some times where I’m feeling, she doesn’t necessarily say it, but I’m feeling her like, can you just shut the hell up? Can we just talk about us, but not in a bad way. It just overall it’s amazing. I remember the first time we bought a property.

[00:07:28] John Papa: In Magog, we’re going to Walmart, and I don’t know why I was so excited, I think because it was Tuesday at 2pm, and the rest of the world’s on their struggle answering angry boss emails, and I was like, babe isn’t this great? I know we’re just going to pick up some ads and stuff, but isn’t this amazing?

[00:07:44] John Papa: I love this freedom, and we’re literally in a cottage town, and. There, there is a little town, but you’re an hour and a half away from Montreal. Yet you feel this sense of, I don’t know, just relaxed cottage. You hear the leaves blowing, it’s just, it was beautiful. And even while I was in this setup and we were like surrounded by boxes and setting up furniture you open the window and you just hear nothing and it felt great.

[00:08:12] John Papa: That was overall this amazing experience because. Where she is really good, I would never question. She might have a question, this color or this color, and I’ll just answer confidently. Always answer confidently. But, and she would

[00:08:26] John: make me look?

[00:08:28] John Papa: exactly. But on the flip side, she would never question my PMS decisions or what I decide to go in the text.

[00:08:36] John Papa: Actually, she might question the cost of certain things, which is good. We need that. We need that, but She’ll, she understands the work I’m putting on this side of things, the business side of things, and I think it works amazing because we don’t really get in our own way. And yeah when we set up furniture we have even a system that is very, she reads the manual, and I execute, because if it was the flip side, then there’d be a

[00:09:02] John: So I, I’m relatively hand handy, right? I I own a ton of tools. I get shit done. And but when it comes to getting home projects. Like it’s never like for us, it’s it’s one of our friction points., but it’s all, it works out in the end,

[00:09:18] Mateo: whatever. No, dude, John. So John’s one of those guys will be like, yeah, I’m going on vacation. And I’m like, Hey man, check in. How’s your vacation doing? Oh man, I’m knee deep in remodeling my kitchen. Like I gotta, I got the oven halfway out and all the walls are down and I’m like vacation. And then

[00:09:35] John: spent last weekend painting

[00:09:37] Mateo: Oh, I’m handy. I’m like, he’s what are you doing? I’m like talking to a contractor who’s remodeling some shit for

[00:09:43] John Papa: Yeah, exactly. But on to that point three years ago on a scale from one to ten, I was at zero handy and now I’m at a three or a four and I’m saying that and I’m proud. Yeah, no, but, no, and that’s the thing is I’m at three dishwashers deep right now, and, I’m proud, whatever, say what you want I’ve set

[00:10:01] John Papa: up,

[00:10:01] Mateo: dude.

[00:10:02] John: start somewhere.

[00:10:03] Mateo: No, I can tell you a hundred percent. Like I’m probably, just like I was saying, I’m the call the contractor guy, but the most, I’m the things that I am most proud of installing is a garage door opener, a microwave, and there’s one more, one more like appliance thing that I was just like, Fuck it.

[00:10:20] Mateo: Looked it up on YouTube and did it and then sat back and was like, oh, yeah, that was cool It wasn’t as bad as I thought it was but still not the handy

[00:10:27] John Papa: It’s really about learning at one time, and this was before we even got into the short term rental space. We had moved into a condo during COVID, which North of the border was bad, but even without, within the ten provinces, we were the worst. If you think of all of North America, we were just on an island stuck, and they stopped contractors, and we wanted to redo our floors before moving the furniture in, so I had some handyman friends and show me how one, how to do it for one bedroom, but then I took that the next day, and my wife Lisa became my little helper, but we did that floor together and I was like, doing a floor?

[00:11:02] John Papa: That was

[00:11:04] John: the sanding

[00:11:05] Mateo: That’s insane. Yeah

[00:11:06] John: And yeah,

[00:11:07] John Papa: and six months before we’re in a, like I said, I’m in a nine to five and I was corporate banker. Still am, I’m a mortgage broker now, but it’s good.

[00:11:17] John: talk to us about, sorry

[00:11:18] Mateo: No, I was gonna say talk to us about like that transition like what was The industry that you walked into, right?, I came from a financial services background also, right? So coming into the short term rental, vacation rental space is weird to me. Like it’s Whoa, like it’s a completely different, just vibe, landscape, people, attitude.

[00:11:39] Mateo: What was it like in Canada? Cause we have experience here in the markets in the US and we see how the market’s evolving here. What did you walk into when you stepped into this business early stage? Talk to us about that.

[00:11:49] John Papa: The very first thing I did, by the way, was, and it’s not the plug, but I bought Avery Carl’s book Short Term Rental, Long Term Wealth, because I don’t think there’s a better it’s such a, it’s a cute little pocketbook, and it tells you everything you need to do.

[00:12:02] John: Great. We’ve had her on the podcast.

[00:12:04] John Papa: yeah, she’s amazing.

[00:12:05] John Papa: I got to meet her in Nashville, too a month or so ago. Had bought that book after I bought the property, so that big question mark going into buying the property was then solved by that book. I knew what types of things I had to look for, whether it was a PMS, I knew that a guidebook up, I think she even writes in her, in the in her book about how the sticky coffee fingers.

[00:12:30] John Papa: Old school guidebook, you should have a digital guidebook that then the client or the guest could see, I still say bank client, that the guest could have access to information the second they book, or even before they book, rather than when they walk in and, all the kayaks are gone for the weekend.

[00:12:44] John Papa: All those little strategies. Even having a smart lock so I can be as hands off as possible. So what that book showed me is. I want to come in and I want to come in strong and have all the right things in place. If you get a four star on that first book, it’s suicide. I knew we had to, we, I knew it would look good because Lisa is an interior designer and that, that wasn’t the part that was stressing us out.

[00:13:08] John Papa: But the fact that I read that book put a lot of that stress, that like how to’s, To rest, don’t get me wrong until you see that first booking come in and the flow, I think we went live in April, which is dead time, but it is when people are booking the summer and then within the month you just see booking.

[00:13:26] John Papa: And it was good to see it work, until from February to May and we didn’t know it was actually going to work. There was definitely stress, but thanks to the education piece. Reading that book and then. Any short term rental podcast I can listen to I did.

[00:13:40] John: that’s awesome. Super smart. The so right now you’re at, you’re in, just, you’re a small property management company. You got some inventory in up in Quebec. You have, you’re sitting right now in Southern Florida. So you’re setting up inventory there. Where are you taking Papa’s Getaways?

[00:13:58] John: Where do you see yourself? What’s your ultimate goal? You’re small today, I, I see in your eyes that this isn’t where you’re going to be. I see some scaling happening. What are you thinking?

[00:14:08] John Papa: Yeah I can tell you, first of all, as a mortgage broker, we’re done owning for a bit because we’re tapped out. But I want to start bringing in our qualities that we offer, whether it’s a full tech stack and the service that we bring to guests, to other owners within our area in Eastern Townships.

[00:14:26] John Papa: In Quebec. I’m down in Florida and that’s done with intention and emotion. So first of all, the emotion part, my, my parents have owned in since 2009 down in South Florida. So we’ve been coming down to Pompano forever. I’m in Pompano Beach right now. So when we do come down for Christmas, I came down with my mother in law a couple months ago for the holidays.

[00:14:48] John Papa: And be paid in Airbnb. And I was like, we do this, we’re going to, we should be paying someone else. I should get paid to be here. Where the intent piece comes in is I think back home, Quebecers, they own one of two things that they own a second home, it’s a cottage or it’s a place in Florida.

[00:15:05] John Papa: So I want to be that gateway to help owners buy the property, whether it’s a cottage, up North ski location or help them and. A lot of education comes with buying in Florida because it’s a completely different market that I just went through, even we’ve got fencers here today and, the permitting, if you change a light bulb here, it seems you need to get permits.

[00:15:26] John Papa: Exaggerating to make a point, point

[00:15:28] Mateo: Serious at the same time. Yeah it’s a real

[00:15:30] John Papa: Yeah. I want to be that gateway. I mentioned Lisa being a designer, so that’s a great thing to have on board. I’m also a mortgage broker. So I really want to capture potential owners from pre approval stage, all the way to managing your property.

[00:15:45] John Papa: And I, the way I see it is I really want to have as a second home strategy and the way I put it is. Vacation home for the owner, vacation rental for me. Meaning I want to offset as much of the cost as possible. I’m not going to come in all Warren Buffett y, I’m going to make you five million dollars this year.

[00:16:02] John Papa: I want you to get your place to stay at with the family. You go to maybe a month out of the year, let’s not collect cobwebs for the rest of the year. Let’s make you income that you otherwise wouldn’t have had that maybe will pay it off completely or maybe two thousand dollars a month

[00:16:18] John Papa: Hundred.

[00:16:19] John: John, this is how it all started, right? This is, look back into, when vacation rentals, pre Airbnb, this is what it was all about. I want to be able to afford and finance and own a second home, a vacation home that we can go ahead and take our family. And, when we’re not using it or we can come and bring all extended family, if you get a really large place, and then, cousin, so and so staying at it this week, so and so staying at it this week.

[00:16:45] John: And the rest of the time you’re putting it up in newspapers and you’re seeing a little ad and staying in here. And it was email and it was letters. Vacation rentals is not a new thing, but this is how it all started. And it’s Since Airbnb turned into a very lucrative business and it’s a business model and, it is, that’s more the focus for most people, but if you can go ahead and bring it back to the roots and showcase to these homeowners or these new second homeowners that, hey, you can stay in here as long as you want, but When you’re not using it, let’s make sure it’s occupied and let’s make sure that money is helping to repair any damage and to keep everything up to date and up to snuff and it just makes so much sense.

[00:17:34] John Papa: And to add to that great points is accessibility, right? Some people in their mind, they think that owning that property is 20 years down the line. They’re taking it down the line because they know that I’m 30 years old, so a lot of my, my people are buying their first home. They’re thinking about that first kid.

[00:17:54] John Papa: So they’re just worried about the home that they just bought in the past few years. They’re not worried about the next home, but if I can say that I’m going to offset a lot of your costs that might be closer, maybe let your baby become a kid and then you’ll think about having a place for that kid to run around with.

[00:18:10] John Papa: Or during the winter down here in Florida, so making that dream one step closer is definitely something I want to do. We can jump into at some point challenges in financing, which is a whole other thing, but if I can help in any way, make that dream come true. Closer than that’s I’m doing my job.

[00:18:28] Mateo Bradford-Vazquez: hey, John. Let’s talk about one of the most frustrating challenges of hosting. Cleaning. Seriously. Hosting is hard enough. Why does cleaning have to be such a pain?

[00:18:37] John: SDR cleaning is not the same as residential, and you need someone who knows the difference. Plus cleaners have access to your property. You need to find people who are qualified and trustworthy.

[00:18:45] Mateo Bradford-Vazquez: Add to that, you need cleaners who don’t need to be micromanaged. Who has time to text schedules back and forth and try to confirm days and times? Especially when bookings change. And then, dealing with invoices, payments, and tax reporting.

[00:18:58] John: Turno has solved all of these challenges with this cleaning management software. Turno’s Cleaner Marketplace has over 55, 000 vetted short term rental cleaners, and they make finding a local cleaner super easy. You just enter some property and cleaning details, and cleaners start bidding.

[00:19:12] John: You can see things like competitive cleaner prices, business credentials, and reviews before you agree to work together. Plus, Marketplace cleaners are paid automatically once the job is completed. No more manual payment hassles.

[00:19:23] Mateo Bradford-Vazquez: When you sync Turno to your listing calendars, every turnover gets auto scheduled as bookings come in. And if anything changes, your cleaner is notified immediately. Plus, cleaners can see if it’s a same day turnover, so they know right away that time is critical.

[00:19:36] Mateo Bradford-Vazquez: And with tools like Photo Checklist, Inventory Management, Problem Reporting, and the Guest Checkout Review Prompt, Turno gives hosts real time eyes and ears on the ground, right from the cleaner to the host’s app.

[00:19:46] John: No BS. Listeners can get $150 Amazon gift card when they try Turno and its cleaner marketplace. New users can sign up at turno.com/noBS, search for a cleaner in your area, connect with one or more, and then complete a marketplace cleaning. Once you see how easy and simple cleaning management can be, you’ll love how much time and money you save, not to mention no more cleaning headaches. To learn more, go to turno.com/noBS and get started today

[00:20:09] Mateo: a lot of that’s mindset change, right? Because you’re changing the way that people perceive how to do something. And. Talk to me about the challenge of, because it’s one thing to be a homeowner, it’s one thing to be a homeowner slash investor, and then it’s one thing to be an investor, right?

[00:20:25] Mateo: Because you’re telling people to get a second home, right? But you’re also encouraging people to take that second home. And rent it out when they’re not there, right? So that dichotomy of, Oh, this is our second home getaway. It hits a little different when it’s yeah, but we’re going to lock off and put all our stuff over here in this room and then let other people come into this home in order to pay for this home, in order to make this home, more of an asset than a liability, right?

[00:20:54] Mateo: So talk to us about. In your market, like, how does that conversation go? Is that more of, an education? Is it more of you having to show them? Like, how are you converting, that into this mindset where people can own earlier, right? If they’re flexible in terms of how they do it.

[00:21:14] John Papa: right. Haven’t done it yet. This will be my plan so Once again, Lisa being an interior designer is the key component here because what we focus on even for our guests in our properties that we’re at right now is Making your place feel like home and, sorry we won’t have your family picture. That’s obvious.

[00:21:33] John Papa: But we’re gonna work hand in hand with owners that, yes, we might have to move your skis into the shed, we’re gonna work hand in hand so that place feels like their home. There’s gonna be non negotiables, like our coffee station, and, we always have a, a hashtag able moment, a wall, we like our neon signs, like right behind me, in a few weeks, there will be a neon sign.

[00:21:54] John Papa: We want to bring our elements to the table, no doubt. But we’re going to make it feel like home for everybody. So that will be definitely how we want to overcome that challenge for making people want to jump into this. Because even, I had, I took a flight yesterday to come down to Florida.

[00:22:11] John Papa: Cause now, as you can see, contractors are starting to work here again. So I want to be here to oversee the whole operation. And when I walked in. It was so weird how much it felt like home, and I feel like that when I go to our properties back in, in Maybach, and having the proper cleaning company also comes into play so that when you walk in, it’s as you left it last, you wouldn’t even know that there were guests in the meantime.

[00:22:38] John Papa: That, that’s how I want to bridge that gap. Cause I really, as much as possible, wanted to make it feel like a second home. And that, again, it goes into vacation home for the owner, vacation rental for me. And then in between you wouldn’t even know, but you have to educate them as be as upfront as possible about the dates because we don’t cancel,

[00:22:57] John Papa: So yeah

[00:22:58] John: You’re talking about Canada let’s pivot here and let’s talk about some of the challenges we can dive into misconceptions and all different things. You mentioned earlier that Quebec had the most rigorous,

[00:23:10] Mateo: right.

[00:23:11] John: During COVID, some of the rules for, stay in place kind of stuff. We’re not going to really talk about that right now, but let’s talk about short term rental, vacation rental regulations and what you as hosts and property managers are up against. And in, we can dive in as wherever and however we’d like.

[00:23:32] John Papa: so we actually have, minus taking a couple months a couple years ago, I think they’ve gone better to get back to us. We have a tourist board that’s pretty good at giving us our licensing and I think Catherine even touched upon it a couple weeks ago when she was on that Quebec actually has their stuff in order when it comes to licensing.

[00:23:52] John Papa: Personally, where we are in Magog, they’ve been doing condo hotels since the 80s.

[00:23:56] John Papa: More Airbnb operators than there are owners, so there’s a lot of comfort there. What we’re up against, though, is I see many literally perfect locations for short term rentals. When we talk about cottage country, like similar to the picture that I’m looking at right now on my background.

[00:24:16] John Papa: that just don’t allow it. And for me, it’s a huge question mark and it’s limiting ourselves. It’s not allowing your coffee shop owner down the street to make that extra income. Tourism is good, it’s not just parties, it’s not yes, you get those stories, but I think a way to overcome that, and I think there’s a lack of education for Quebecers, whether it’s Because it’s far, because it’s US dollar, because it’s another language.

[00:24:43] John Papa: But, for things like noise, there’s things like minute that allow you to detect noise and tell people to, simmer down. The two main challenges I would see is, Where it’s not, like it is for me in Magog, where it should be easier to become Airbnb investors, we need to kick that door down.

[00:25:01] John Papa: But also it’s the education piece that we’re missing. When I go to Nashville, I’m not seeing Quebeckers. When I go to Miami, I’m not seeing Quebeckers.

[00:25:08] John: And the education piece, there isn’t geared towards Quebecers is not geared towards Canadians. And in true Canadian fashion. I could say something like sorry, was that good?

[00:25:19] John Papa: very good.

[00:25:20] John: A good sorry? The that was, yeah, I probably shouldn’t have got, but whatever the case what you’re talking about is right now in, in Magog and where you’re at, you’re like, today, the tourism board is fantastic and everything’s going smoothly in our municipality where we live in, our section of Quebec. But potentially, It’s not always going to be that way.

[00:25:40] John: So I think that the education piece , is a, how do we go ahead and help these other municipalities that are having struggles? How do we go ahead and come together in a unified front and set ourselves up as the ones that know what the hell is going on and is there as a professional and help educate, but .

[00:25:59] John: You also have to think about in your own location in Magog, it might not be so rosy a year from now, two years from now. And so to make sure that you have a coalition, you have a group of people together that are promoting, responsible renting and promoting the, Why are you guys doing this?

[00:26:20] John: You’re doing it because you want to help vacationers. You’re doing it to add extra income. The big thing that, Catherine has brought up, is The ease in, hospitals and travel and stuff. They’re not as accessible as they are in the States. These lodging opportunities for people that are traveling are important.

[00:26:42] John: It’s not just a way to make more money. These are, There are strategically placed Canada is a vast country and certain aspects of it are not densely populated. So when you start restricting in basing rules and regulations on cities, and we see that here in the States as well, if you’re basing rules and regulations on how cities feel and having the government or the Provincial government make decisions based on what is happening in the city.

[00:27:14] John: It’s not the same thing. It’s what’s happening out in the sticks. It’s and it directly impacts that.

[00:27:22] John Papa: And to that point part of, cause I’m speaking at the conference and I’m going to, at the start, I want to go into a bit of my, what we do. And, I know that what I do with Lisa, we’re doing good in this world, we’re allowing people to come visit and have a great little weekend at our place in a comfortable space.

[00:27:42] John Papa: On the flip side, and this is where the lack of education, knowing how things work if someone goes to a property in our same neighbourhood that’s really bad, It ruins it for all of us. I’d rather have good competition all around us that keeps us at a high standard. About a month ago, I got a guest that wrote to me in a panic, saying Do you happen to have room tonight?

[00:28:03] John Papa: And this is Friday, yeah, of the weekend, the middle of the ski season. It was obviously a no. She wrote to me from a year ago, because she had booked me last year, but not this year. And she was in a panic because her place, she had to whip out the brooms and all that stuff and it just wasn’t good.

[00:28:17] John Papa: They had to clean the sheets and just that type of horror story. If you flip it, if she went to that place the first time, she never would have gone to my place because she would have X’d out that whole market, right? So keeping high standards for the whole market I think of friends I’ve actually made because they went on a podcast and they mentioned the Eastern Townships.

[00:28:39] John Papa: I don’t know if Carrie Gibson and Phillip from Shalihuga in Orford, but they’re right down the street from me. And.

[00:28:45] John: Are they going to CanStays?

[00:28:47] John Papa: they are, and they were just with me in Nashville, or at least Philip was, so we’ll do a handoff, but I’m sure many owners in the area would look at them and be scared because they’re outstanding, a little design, even when you talk to Philip, he’ll go into all the data and he knows everything that’s happening on his property and they’re high level, and they’re, I, they see what’s They go on podcasts for a reason and I’m friends with them, and that’s the, I’d rather be friends with the people that are bringing high levels to our area and putting us literally on the map.

[00:29:22] John Papa: Whereas, we have to bring those standards to our province and that’s what I hope, our province and our country, and that’s what I hope people can take from CanStays, and it’s what I got even though you say, American conferences, they don’t always tailor to Canadians.

[00:29:37] John Papa: I got my nuggets, and I more importantly I got my relationships and indirectly is why I’m here You know, I think literally this cap is what Catherine saw on a boat. So she saw a hockey cap so as a Canadian we start talking hockey and realized that she has Canadian relations and Here we are and I think when she mentioned one of the people that She spoke to an American conference that says that there’s a lack of Canadian content I don’t want to be like, I’m the reason and I’m the, here I am, and it opens doors that you might not expect.

[00:30:05] John Papa: And if anything, it’s the networking piece. And, going home with a to do list

[00:30:10] John: I met Catherine at a FAVR conference and I just, I put a I put a text out to every conference attendee and said, Hey, I’m having an early morning breakfast. Anyone wants to show up and, talk shop? And she showed up. It was like at seven in the morning and on a conference, which no one, those are the people that went to bed early the night before and they’re

[00:30:30] John Papa: Yeah, for

[00:30:31] Mateo: for the ones that just stayed up and didn’t go to

[00:30:34] John: or yeah, but she went to bed,

[00:30:36] John Papa: I don’t think it was the all nighter.

[00:30:39] John: Catherine wasn’t the all nighter but that’s how we met and, we just started talking about all these different things, and that’s what it’s all about, right?

[00:30:46] John: It’s

[00:30:46] John: And I think for the Canadians or anyone that’s going to the CanStays, that’s where you’re going to get out of it. It’s networking. It’s getting in front of high profile political people that actually, you know, where your voice can make a difference. And it’s, yeah, it’s getting all these nuggets and understanding, we now have a relationship which we didn’t have prior to this conference, and we’re going to bounce ideas off each other.

[00:31:10] John: And, that’s what I we’ve built our whole, everything we’ve ever done off of relationships. That was the reason we started this podcast two and a half, close to three years ago. It’s we just want to get to know people better. And we wanted to have real deeper conversations, like the conversations you’d have at a bar, not the conversations you’d have in front of everybody else, right?

[00:31:32] John: That’s what this whole Podcast was started.

[00:31:35] John Papa: So where I actually met Catherine for the first time it was the Book Direct conference in Miami and On day zero, I guess the day before there was a boat ride. I was on that boat. Were you guys on the boat by any chance? Cause I know you were

[00:31:49] John: I was, I

[00:31:50] John: didn’t

[00:31:50] Mateo: I got in the next

[00:31:51] John Papa: Okay. So

[00:31:53] John: the Tyann boat ride.

[00:31:55] John Papa: yes. And that, that’s the thing is on that boat.

[00:31:58] John Papa: And I’m at this point, I’m at one property setting up my second property. I said, okay, like I was very nervous to go alone because right now we’re at the point where my wife is still working as a designer and I’m taking all the risks. So I put myself out there alone. And on that boat, you’ve got, you mentioned Thai Ann, you’ve got Neely Khan, you’ve got Maddie Rifkin and all these, and I don’t even know them until I go look it up later.

[00:32:23] John Papa: And I see them all on podcasts like every week. I’m like, oh my God, like I’m with all these hard hitters. So what I appreciate about our industry is that There’s a lot of money for everyone to be making, but if you want to reach out to like the God within the industry, you’re literally a DM away.

[00:32:40] John Papa: Like you go to that conference in Nashville and Mark Simpson is at a booth and what I’m saying is, let’s say you work in tech, Good luck getting a hold of Mark Zuckerberg,

[00:32:50] John: I think Mark Simpson’s going to really like that analogy when, when

[00:32:54] John Papa: It’s just

[00:32:55] Mateo: dude, I’m sitting here

[00:32:55] John: I’m like, damn Mark.

[00:32:58] Mateo: that made the billboards working brother. It’s not even just the billboard because Mark shows up and Mark’s a friend and a good friend of the show. Great personality. But I think You know, what makes our industry unique is just what you said.

[00:33:11] Mateo: Like, when you commit to professionalism, when you commit to getting better, when you commit to understanding that it’s a process, it’s a collegial process, it’s getting together, it’s, it’s reaching out, it’s learning, it’s sharing best practices and understanding that, the people that you look up to were once in your space, right?

[00:33:31] Mateo: They just decided to, professionalize, share their learnings and push products to the forefront that are aimed at making the industry smarter. More optimized and just overall better and doing it in a way that is accessible, right? Cause you will go to these conferences.

[00:33:47] Mateo: When you go to CanStays, you’re going to meet people. You’re from John and I to, all of the people on the DS, including yourself that are going to be speaking there, you’re not going to be shuttled off into a back room and hidden like behind security, you’re going to be on the floor talking to people and we’re going to do the same.

[00:34:02] Mateo: And I think. A lot of my questions to be for you today, we’re going to be around like culture and how do you build it out? The reality is, this is how you build it out. It’s how John and I met. It’s how John and I built this podcast. It’s how we’ve always operated. Whether it was conferences, whether it was, on the podcast and building relationships, like it is talking to people, it is engaging in dialogue.

[00:34:24] Mateo: It is sharing of ideas, right? And so it’s interesting to see how that’s going to be developing in you at the forefront, in Catherine and others in Canada, pushing towards a more unified industry up there, a more unified collegial environment up

[00:34:40] John: An

[00:34:41] Mateo: I’m excited.

[00:34:42] John: accessible

[00:34:43] Mateo: Yeah. I think is a key. Yeah,

[00:34:44] John Papa: where I want to bridge the gap here though is because if I want to marry this all together You want to talk about culture too a bit? I’m I have access to this because I speak what you speak You know, I sound like you. Maybe some Canadian tendencies but I sound like you, right? And we in Quebec, that’s not the reality.

[00:35:08] John Papa: And I think we’re not getting that information out to people because they literally don’t speak the language. Quick 101. I’m from the west part of Montreal. There’s a big part of western Montreal speaks like I speak. Might as well be Ontarian, really. The, once you leave that, if you think about Austin within Texas, how they’re a blue within a red, right?

[00:35:31] John Papa: Not the other way, but yeah, okay. That’s what, that’s what our election map looks like in a provincial election. It’s Montreal and the rest. And then within the city, even Like it’s a bit of a hybrid within the downtown core of Montreal, but protecting the French language in many ways, their ways about going about it are not learning English.

[00:35:53] John Papa: It’s not just promoting French and I grew up in the French system. I went to high school in French. And so I’m here to say I take those sides. I say we should all take both sides. We are it all like in the same vein that you say how all our us as short-term rental hosts, we’re better together.

[00:36:10] John Papa: We’re better together as language. I have friends from the west part of Montreal whose French for living in a French po. Providence is pitiful and I’ll tell ’em that to their face. I tell them all the time. And. On the flip side, you have French people out out on the sticks that don’t learn English and their hopes for doing business elsewhere are always going to be dead, even to go downtown Montreal, because, we do have companies, we’re a big tech industry, if you don’t speak English, I don’t know what to do for you, but that, that’s what I’m trying to bridge I have ideas and a bilingual podcast, one English, one French is something I have in mind,

[00:36:51] John: Love it.

[00:36:52] Mateo: Run it like a hundred percent. I think that’s what it takes, right? Because you are going to have to meet people where they are. That’s not, that’s nothing new for this industry. We have more, we have many from our vendors to our managers that work in bilingual markets marketing, different VRMA has a whole European.

[00:37:08] Mateo: Entity, in which I’m pretty sure that they’ve translated materials into, we’re not talking about something that’s we’re not going to colonize a place. It is still modern, even if they speak French. It’s not hard to translate those ideas into a form that’s, that is palatable for them and understandable for them, right?

[00:37:28] Mateo: But it’s

[00:37:28] John: the difference,

[00:37:29] Mateo: bringing them into the culture as well and understanding that there’s good in, they don’t have to lose their soul, right? To expand their business, right? To do the things that are going to, actually help them out doesn’t mean that you’re gonna cause this invasion of, non-French speaker.

[00:37:46] Mateo: You might get pe, you might pick up people that can’t afford to go to France, but can afford to go to Canada for French immersion experiences, right? And other things within that space. But if you’re not open to that and working to that, then you’re gonna

[00:38:00] John: it’s more of the processes, though, Mateo I think it’s more of a are they willing, are people willing to go ahead and be, and do best, what is best practices? I think best practices up in Quebec would be like, all right, I’m going to make this accessible in both French and in English.

[00:38:15] John: And what legally do you need to do , as far as disclaimers and, verbiage on websites and accessibility type stuff, do you need to get done? And if maybe if those processes were, this is how you do it, this, these are the steps to get from point A to point B might be the way to go.

[00:38:34] Mateo: But it doesn’t matter if they don’t, if they’re not willing and understand why they’re doing it. The process, you can’t even get to the process until the why has been cemented. They have to understand why they’re going to go do this work. Because they may see it as extra work. They may be like, ah, I don’t have time to do that.

[00:38:47] Mateo: When it’s not that hard,

[00:38:49] John: And yeah, you got to show the, how the,

[00:38:51] Mateo: But they need to know the benefit of it in understanding how it fits into their why and why they do what they do, right? Like we, as with everything else, you have to build into that. If you don’t tap that. It’s extra work and they’re probably not going to want to do it.

[00:39:04] Mateo: They’re not going to see the benefits.

[00:39:06] John Papa: and take our industry as well just simply as a host just check on the map again, so yes, I’m going to get my French Canadian speakers For sure, and you best believe that it’s bonjour before hi. But we’re pretty much Vermont, and so we get, New England comes up to us we get our Ontarians, we might get people from the Maritimes.

[00:39:26] John Papa: I, as someone who’s a perfectly bilingual person, I don’t really stress about these things. But I really question how that The person from, the parts of Quebec that really just speak French, and also have a short term rental, what’s the plan? And, when you get that guest from Vermont, what are you doing?

[00:39:44] John Papa: Because it’s not just about being able to write down broken English or whatever. It’s we’re in hospitality. It has to come off hospitable. When I write in French, It’s as hospitable as in English, whereas you know very well through a text, sometimes things don’t come out properly, even when I’m writing in English, right?

[00:40:03] John Papa: When you’re writing a different language and it comes out, you might get a 4 star because the person might have thought that you were being non hospitable.

[00:40:11] John: That’s a great point.

[00:40:12] Mateo: And learning. Yeah, it’s tone is in like tone communication, the whole thing, like you can also make it fun. Like when I think of so many ideas, if you’re willing to make it welcoming, which it should be if it’s if you’re in hospitality. There’s so many ways that you can make that welcoming and fun and not lose your identity in the process.

[00:40:30] Mateo: And. But again, that’s from the outside, that’s on the outside looking in, right? It’s going to be your voices that are going to change that. It’s going to be you, it’s going to be Catherine, and it’s going to be the other amazing people who are in this industry operating, and the people taking the reins of the next generation of the industry, because they’re the ones that got to do the work, right?

[00:40:47] Mateo: They’re the ones that are going to build the culture that will, that whatever that Canadian culture is going to be moving forward, it’s going to be on their shoulders. But I think it’s exciting. It’s, I want to talk to those people. And again, I’m excited to see you. I think you coming up with the podcast as bilingual would be dope.

[00:41:01] Mateo: It’s not out there. Somebody should totally, or if it is that we’re not, we haven’t been exposed to it yet, do it

[00:41:07] John Papa: Do you want to be my first French guest?

[00:41:09] Mateo: for sure. A hundred percent. I would

[00:41:11] John Papa: Roll with the punches.

[00:41:13] Mateo: there with the, I will, look, I will answer every question I can in French with my best French attempt accent. Cause I love that, right?

[00:41:20] Mateo: That’s what I love about travel. I’m gonna try. You can hate me all you want to, but at least I will try,

[00:41:24] John Papa: Appreciate that. Yeah.

[00:41:26] Mateo: Because I think it’s dope. It’s part of what makes traveling and makes this industry so fun. And again, it’s what it should be. It’s learning new things, talking with new people, showing new experiences, sharing, the part of your culture and not feeling that it has to be outdated.

[00:41:40] Mateo: It can be what makes your space so special.

[00:41:44] John Papa: and that’s why guests like coming to Quebec, is we’re the only place in North America where you go there And it’s like, Whoa, we’re in another country. You get that different vibe. You don’t look at us. We’re just

[00:41:56] Mateo: You are in another country and I, I think it’s, they always say, Oh, it feels like Europe. And, but Hey, we’ll make it feel like Montreal, make it feel like Montreal, make it feel like its own thing. Like it’s dope. It gives you those similar vibes, but it’s not, and it’s different.

[00:42:10] Mateo: And there’s lots of reasons why.

[00:42:12] John: before we get out of here, a couple things can you tell us what your presentation is going to be about specifically at Can’t Stace? First of

[00:42:20] John Papa: So I’m going to be speaking in French, which is my first French presentation since high school on the issues of financing properties as a mortgage broker. That could have been its own podcast today. I bored my friend on the couch the other day for an hour, but he had questions.

[00:42:36] John Papa: There’s a lot of issues with financing. Anytime a lender comes in to our brokerage office, I asked the question to do short term rental. It’s always no. And I then joke and I say then are you telling me that the money I made last year was monopoly money? Like what’s that money in my bank account?

[00:42:54] John Papa: Like you’re ignoring a higher margin So I’m gonna get into why I think All those things are happening, as well as what my solutions would be, because I have reached out to some of these banks and I said, You are, you cannot speak to a better person than me. Can we sit down, can I sit down with your decision makers?

[00:43:12] John Papa: And there’s, I have not been able to break that door down yet, but it’s my mission and I think I’m going to use the platform I’ll be standing on at that point to, to make my points very clear as to what the solutions could be. I know that there is a bank that is starting now to finance, but for the most part, if there were banks that said they can use short term rental income, it’s to then buy a house.

[00:43:34] John Papa: A home, not a second home, like a home will use your income. But I want people to walk in and say I am buying a short term rental. Okay, here’s your finance, like that. I want to get to that point. And if we’re being real right now, Investors know that they don’t accept it. So they come in and they say they’re going to do long term rental in banf, like sure,

[00:43:57] Mateo: All

[00:43:57] John Papa: And otherwise known as mortgage fraud, right?

[00:44:00] John Papa: If we need to figure out a way where people don’t have to do subtle little frauds. So that they can get their property I, I wish I can sit here and say anyone can do it. Full transparency in the spirit of the NoBS podcast, we got approved on high net worth programs. They did not care what we were doing with the home, so I can’t be like, oh, you can do it too, because it’s not the truth, but I want it to be the truth.

[00:44:22] John Papa: Because I have solutions in mind.

[00:44:25] Mateo: we got to figure out down here to like that. The part of the financing of this industry is not it’s we can do it. No, you we could do an episode and we will bring you back to another episode because it’s everything from the data to the actually understanding how to finance appropriately for our industry, right?

[00:44:43] Mateo: And they’re just, it’s a it’s an old ship trying to be brand new. Like it’s just, they don’t understand it well. They don’t want to take the time to really understand it well. But if they really did, if they really did, yeah, it’d be a different story.

[00:44:56] John Papa: It’s You guys have down here the DSCR option, which I know is expensive, but it’s there. And at the end of the day, just to wrap a bow on this, When there’s risk, what do banks do? They charge interest. So don’t say no, there’s not a program. Just give me the expensive program so that people can still do their number crunching and see if it makes sense overall.

[00:45:18] John Papa: Because we can afford a higher interest rate because we’re getting higher margins. So maybe it’s worth it still, so

[00:45:25] Mateo: but that’s where you get tricky because they tend to take liberty with that up the interest rate. And then, deals don’t pencil out, right? And we’re dealing with the smarter investor. We’re dealing with the smarter climate. Those one or two, points on the front of the back end, they add up, right?

[00:45:40] Mateo: And especially when you’re looking at seasonal inventory, we can go into this anytime later. We’ll get on there. We’ll get into this offline. We’ll definitely, we’ll

[00:45:47] John Papa: setting up.

[00:45:47] Mateo: big in Canada, but I think I’m with you on that, man. I think if we were able to open up capital in a way that was intelligent, right?

[00:45:54] Mateo: Because I’ve seen it go both ways. I’ve seen really bad, books on the front end and people say why don’t you finance this wonderful gross number that we have? And we’re just like, dude, because when you pencil it out, you don’t make shit.

[00:46:05] Mateo: And then we’ve seen people that use astronomical, ridiculous data, and they come up with these terms that just, shows that they don’t know our industry and they set up really bad deals.

[00:46:15] Mateo: Anyway, ah, yeah, we can talk about that another day, but, and in Canada, when I see you in Canada, man, we’ll come up and we’ll talk

[00:46:22] John Papa: yeah. And you guys, finally it’ll be the first conference that my wife is at.

[00:46:27] Mateo: Ah, we get to meet you. We get to meet you. All right.

[00:46:29] John Papa: Yeah,

[00:46:31] John: So you’ll be on your best behavior.

[00:46:33] John Papa: Yeah, I always am! What are you talking about?

[00:46:35] John: I know

[00:46:36] Mateo: Yeah.

[00:46:37] John: for joining the

[00:46:38] Mateo: Yeah, it’s been great to have you on.

[00:46:40] John: Check out John’s Papa’s getaways Make sure that you sign up for the CanStays if you haven’t signed up for can stays use code DIRECT100 for $100 off.

[00:46:54] John: Mateo and I will be there. Obviously, John will be there. We’re excited to see you all. And if you like what you hear on the No BS podcast, give us a leave a review, follow us on YouTube, do all that you do.

[00:47:08] Mateo: Subscribe to the channel.

[00:47:09] John: subscribe to the channel, all of the above. And again, thanks so much for joining us today.

[00:47:15] John Papa: Thank you guys for having me, guys. It was a pleasure.